we do have pretty tough laws and we could enforce them more effectively. it's clear that we have a serious gun problem on a per capita basis our police capture six times as many guns as the new york city police do, so we know we have a big gun problem. if you compare us to western european cities they're just as violent when you look at things that look at guns. you look at muggings and things like that, we're surprisingly close. >> cenk: that's interesting. you're saying there is as much crime in other cities, but since those crimes often times happen with guns in chicago, a lot more people wind up dead. >> absolutely. the basic formula for many of these deaths is two 18-year-olds and a gun in a quarrel equals a dead body. we may have injures we may have someone stabbed but we wouldn't end up with so many dead bodies. >> cenk: with six times as many as found in new york, what is lead to go that? >> well, i think there are a number of ways that people are getting around some of the laws here that i think we could do a better job of in disrupting these unde